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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2013 20:51:36 GMT -5
I think Jane and Chuck would have considered how the themes of "the other" that Jane talks about is seen by each group. In other words, every group has an other, the one that is different from themselves. I think an interesting thing is how the chickenheads, droids and humans are all living in their own worlds they created for themselves while at the same time living within a system that all of the groups are in, which makes them the same. The whole book is about comparing stark themes like that, the living and everything dying around them.
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Post by randrhoid on Nov 24, 2013 20:54:22 GMT -5
On a sort-of related note, could there be a significance behind most of the "real" animals ending up dead? Yes, I think that is important - like humans and their war really messed things up, beyond the point of no return. I also found it very sad when several rare animals that appeared real were not (the owl and the toad). Rana, yes, maybe Mercer does represent religion. In terms of Mercer representing religion, it was interesting to me that it ended up being false. It seemed like it reflected the feelings of many at the time the book was written |
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Post by randrhoid on Nov 24, 2013 20:55:54 GMT -5
I think Jane and Chuck would have considered how the themes of "the other" that Jane talks about is seen by each group. In other words, every group has an other, the one that is different from themselves. I think an interesting thing is how the chickenheads, droids and humans are all living in their own worlds they created for themselves while at the same time living within a system that all of the groups are in, which makes them the same. The whole book is about comparing stark themes like that, the living and everything dying around them. I definitely agree |
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 20:56:15 GMT -5
About the goat, I was trying to figure that part out. Is it because, the night he slept with her, Rock had promised Rachael she could be the one to kill Pris (her android look-alike)? Then he backed out of the deal and didn't even take Rachael with him, right? I thougt maybe Rachael was angry he broke his promise and knew killing the goat would be the best way to hurt Rick. What do you think?
This part of the story (Rick using Rachael for sex) made me think of the Arch Android, though I don't think Cindi would have killed a live animal. But Cindi and Rachael both seem unhappy with their lot.
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 20:56:44 GMT -5
I think Jane and Chuck would have considered how the themes of "the other" that Jane talks about is seen by each group. In other words, every group has an other, the one that is different from themselves. I think an interesting thing is how the chickenheads, droids and humans are all living in their own worlds they created for themselves while at the same time living within a system that all of the groups are in, which makes them the same. The whole book is about comparing stark themes like that, the living and everything dying around them. YES! |
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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2013 21:00:58 GMT -5
Yes, the hunting of the androids is definitely one. Identifying the other in our society - I would say they were inspired to make the connection between caste systems in our society that we create such as through class, race, gender that divide us even though we are all the same and trying to live. I think the empathy machine plays a big part in explaining our justification for inaction toward society's ills. Like yeah, I "feel badly, but what can I do?" If you have empathy, you seem more real and human and that makes you just that much better than the guy that is happy and does not consider the plight of another because he either doesn't notice them or believes he can't effect any change, so why think about them. I think it is a survival mechanism too for those who genuinely care because you only have limited resources, time and money to be able to help people. We rationalize that we would definitely help if we could, but we can't so that justifies the fact that we have to continue to live even though others are suffering. I hate to state the obvious, but here we are at Thanksgiving eating everything not nailed down but we think of starving people in other countries but can't fix it, so we justify it by trying not to waste our food. Those kids are still hungry whether I have one helping or three, right?  |
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Post by randrhoid on Nov 24, 2013 21:03:19 GMT -5
About the goat, I was trying to figure that part out. Is it because, the night he slept with her, Rock had promised Rachael she could be the one to kill Pris (her android look-alike)? Then he backed out of the deal and didn't even take Rachael with him, right? I thougt maybe Rachael was angry he broke his promise and knew killing the goat would be the best way to hurt Rick. What do you think? This part of the story (Rick using Rachael for sex) made me think of the Arch Android, though I don't think Cindi would have killed a live animal. But Cindi and Rachael both seem unhappy with their lot. Rachael killing the goat out of anger sounds plausible. I agree the ArchAndroid parallels the book in terms of the android/human relationship and that Cindi wouldn't have killed an animal |
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 21:05:46 GMT -5
Susan, your ideas about the empathy machine are interesting. I definitely agree the people, in general, have to parcel out their empathy as a coping mechanism.
A question: Why do you think the empathy book involved having rocks thrown at you? Was it supposed to symbolize sharing people's burdens? It also seemed key when Rick's wife Iran said that she thought you were *obligated* to use the empathy box when ever you felt joyful - even if that meant you would lose a lot of your joy.
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 21:07:19 GMT -5
A separate question: Why did Rick go back on his deal to take Rachael with him to help him kill the last three androids?
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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2013 21:07:51 GMT -5
I think Mercer represented religion and any other kind of mindlessly following something without question. I think we do that by following others that we think our fashionable or cool. We follow tips on health, food, how to cook etc all by the convictions of what someone told us, like the talking head on the screen like the Buster Friendly show. I think of it's ok to use plastic in microwave; no it leaks chemicals; use glass-no you'll be burned; don't use it at all it changes the chemical balance in the food and causes cancer etc.
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Post by randrhoid on Nov 24, 2013 21:11:12 GMT -5
Yes, the hunting of the androids is definitely one. Identifying the other in our society - I would say they were inspired to make the connection between caste systems in our society that we create such as through class, race, gender that divide us even though we are all the same and trying to live. I think the empathy machine plays a big part in explaining our justification for inaction toward society's ills. Like yeah, I "feel badly, but what can I do?" If you have empathy, you seem more real and human and that makes you just that much better than the guy that is happy and does not consider the plight of another because he either doesn't notice them or believes he can't effect any change, so why think about them. I think it is a survival mechanism too for those who genuinely care because you only have limited resources, time and money to be able to help people. We rationalize that we would definitely help if we could, but we can't so that justifies the fact that we have to continue to live even though others are suffering. I hate to state the obvious, but here we are at Thanksgiving eating everything not nailed down but we think of starving people in other countries but can't fix it, so we justify it by trying not to waste our food. Those kids are still hungry whether I have one helping or three, right? Indeed! Also, given Jane has talked about using science fiction to discuss current issues, I see the ArchAndroid/Electric Lady being influenced by the book in that sense. The book, while being science fiction, seems to reflect the sentiments of society at the time it was written |
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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2013 21:12:35 GMT -5
Mercerism is a way for everyone to experience suffering so they can be empathetic to the suffering of someone else.
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Post by randrhoid on Nov 24, 2013 21:15:16 GMT -5
Susan, your ideas about the empathy machine are interesting. I definitely agree the people, in general, have to parcel out their empathy as a coping mechanism. A question: Why do you think the empathy book involved having rocks thrown at you? Was it supposed to symbolize sharing people's burdens? It also seemed key when Rick's wife Iran said that she thought you were *obligated* to use the empathy box when ever you felt joyful - even if that meant you would lose a lot of your joy. I think it represents life not being a perfect journey and symbolizes sharing others' burdens |
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Post by caroline on Nov 24, 2013 21:15:25 GMT -5
Rana - Yes, this book seems to definitely be dealing with environmental problems, war, segregation of people - all big issues in the 1960s. I think the author is also very interested in how we identify ourselves and what happens if that identity is challenged. (ex: the tests to see who is human and who is android; characters who don't know they are androids, the fake animals).
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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2013 21:15:24 GMT -5
Susan, your ideas about the empathy machine are interesting. I definitely agree the people, in general, have to parcel out their empathy as a coping mechanism. A question: Why do you think the empathy book involved having rocks thrown at you? Was it supposed to symbolize sharing people's burdens? It also seemed key when Rick's wife Iran said that she thought you were *obligated* to use the empathy box when ever you felt joyful - even if that meant you would lose a lot of your joy. I was thinking the rocks were the little annoyances that cause you to look away from your journey or goal, the things that hurt you, but not enough to stop you from getting to your goal as long as you don't let them. Like if you stop to band-aid each little bruise or sit and cry and feel sorry for yourself, then you'll never get anywhere. OMG I think I just saved myself a bag full of dough and 7 years of therapy. lol |
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